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Poisonenvy
Poisonenvy
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re: Reminder to Raiders

As we have now had plenty of time for our raiders to "bed in" and get used to this new expansion of raiding, I'd like to clarify old, long-standing rules about raiding with our guild and point out some newer requirements that apparently some have overlooked.

Prior to signing up for a raid:

  1. Make sure you meet the raid level requirements (gear/ilevel, output, etc).  If you're not sure, check on the specific event on the calendar and it should say.
  2. Make sure ALL of your gear that CAN be gemmed and enchanted IS gemmed and enchanted (that missing enchant could be the difference between a boss kill and a 1% wipe - it HAS happened)
  3. Make sure you have Teamspeak installed and set up.  Ensure your Teamspeak is on "Push to Talk" ... we DO NOT want to hear you breathing, or eating food, or listen to your music/TV during a raid.

When signing up to a raid:

  1. Check the calendar and make sure you are aware of the start and end times.  Generally raids will start at around 9.30pm server time and end around 12pm server time, but not always.
  2. ONLY sign up as definite if you know you'll be able to attend for the full time.  If you wish to attend only part of the raid, this can be arranged, depending on role, but you need to let us know.
  3. If you would like to attend, but you are unsure if you'll be able to, sign as TENTATIVE.
  4. Sign up with the character you would prefer to attend with - but bear in mind that we can't necessarily accommodate everyone's requirements.
  5. If you have alts that can cover different roles, that you are willing to bring (or definitely DON'T want to bring), please let us know, ideally through the forums.
  6. DO NOT sign up with more than one character.  Unless you are multiboxing, this just confuses me!

After signing up for a raid:

  1. DO regularly check our raiding forums for any updates or conversations about forthcoming raids.
  2. Make sure any new gear that CAN be gemmed and enchanted IS gemmed and enchanted.
  3. Make sure you have any relevant flasks.
  4. Make sure you know which bosses are likely to be tackled, and KNOW THE TACTICS.

On raid night:

  1. Be ready for an invite 10-15 minutes prior to raid start time.  This means that you are making your way over to the raid location, you are loading Teamspeak, etc.
  2. If you have not signed for the raid, or have only signed as tentative, be prepared for the fact that there may not be space in the raid for you.  Although flexible raiding means a maximum of 30 people, more people sometimes means harder boss fights, more complicated organisation, more healers required.  If you want to join a raid, sign up properly, ahead of time.
  3. Be aware that I WILL BE BUSY!!  I am farming questions on Teamspeak, in guild, in raid and via whispers.  Please try to ensure any questions you have, are asked prior to raid night (or simply look up the answer yourself).

During a raid:

  1. Be nice.  Yes we have a bit of smutty chat .. but please avoid any chat that may cause offence.  This includes politics, religion, sexual orientation, etc.  If you are uncomfortable with the chat, say so.  If you are asked to desist with a certain chat, please do so.  Please DO NOT make a point of testing the boundaries.  You should know what is acceptable in this situation.
  2. We are a guild that promotes the ability to laugh at our mistakes ... everyone makes them, the trick is to not let them get you down, and to learn from them.  If you are having a specific problem with a specific tactic, please say.  We may be able to swap things around to make it easier.
  3. Please do not post recount/skada data.  If anyone wants to know what this data is, they should have their own addon.  Alternatively you can wait until the data has been uploaded to World of Logs.
  4. If you have an alternative tactic for a fight, or any suggestions, please wait until we are actually discussing tactics .. unless specifically invited, these should not be discussed during a boss fight.

I will be putting an additional post on the raiders forum, asking for raiders to put down their preferred "main" raider, and any alts that they don't mind taking occasionally.  I think this is the best way for me to know who prefers what role, and to assist in planning raids.  Please ensure you only include characters that are raid ready (ilevel 630 minimum, ideally 10-20 ilevels higher).

If anyone can think of anything I've missed off the above, please feel free to reply

 
Poisonenvy
Poisonenvy
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re: Reminder to Raiders

I've added the forum post regarding Mains and Alts for raiders now:

http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10698691&p=37314908&gid=180473#37314908

 
Reapzie

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re: Reminder to Raiders

I've been checking the AH for enchants and they're still silly money atm, 4 - 5k for a weapon enchant, 1500 - 2k for others and 300g for a crystal. I consider my gear in flux I don't want to throw 5ks away willy nilly for gear that I'll be replacing regularly. I'm presently levelling my enchanter and should be able to do my own enchants within the next couple of weeks.

I appreciate the guild has rules regarding raiding, and think maybe I should withdraw from the raid team for a few weeks until I can turn up fully equipped with all the necessaries. I'm signed for the 23rd but am happy to withdraw for someone else fully chanted and gemmed to take my place.

*Withdraws to a quiet corner to count and look at my precious gold. 

 
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Poisonenvy
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re: Reminder to Raiders

As I mentioned before, I'm happy to provide enchants if people have the mats .. but short of spending every hour farming, I cannot possibly be expected to enchant other people's gear.

Healers and tanks, possibly, have a little wiggle room (as long as their output is okay) but DPS should certainly be there .. however as far as enchanting mats are concerned, I get a good flow simply from regularly using my enchanting building in my garrison .. and I usually put one in any alts garrisons too, so they can provide additional mats.

I would like to stress, however, that this is not a new rule .. it has been in our raiding rules from day one .. several years ago :p

By the way .. as far as the auction house goes .. it might also be worth checking for the shards that make up the larger crystals ...

 
Reapzie

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re: Reminder to Raiders

I wasn't expecting free enchants pewee which is why I'm lvl'n my enchanter and I know zee rules which is why i'm opting out for the time being.  :).

 
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Poisonenvy
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re: Reminder to Raiders

Fair enough .. let me know when you're enchanted up (or just start signing up again).

 
Hoescht

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re: Reminder to Raiders

I think the cheaper chants/gems/flasks are acceptable in most cases. The basics mostly aren't that far off spending an extra K or so but there's a much bigger difference between cheap and nothing.

Poisonenvy
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re: Reminder to Raiders

Very true .. and also ... really if people are performing at the top of the output charts, then I'm not going to stress out about it too much .. but if they're running mid to bottom of the table, then really any little helps.  I just feel that it is unfair to the rest of the raid group, if someone just can't be bothered trying at all. 

Especially bearing in mind the way flex works .. every additional person makes the boss harder, the fight potentially longer .. if those people aren't pulling their weight, they're actually making it harder for us to down a boss than if they just hadn't turned up at all.  It's not like when we had a strict 10 man raid .. where it didn't matter if you had 9 or 10 people, the boss was still the same .. so then even if you took someone really low output, it was better than nothing.  Flexible raiding actually makes it harder, for every additional person that comes.

As I've stated before .. we can't afford to carry people.  We're not all completely out-gearing the content ... every person counts.  If you can't be bothered to make every effort to ensure your output is not a drain on the raid, then we can't take you.  But if your output is good enough to top the charts completely naked, then I'm happy for you to come, naked.

I'm not online a huge amount of time .. some days I come on ONLY to maintain my garrison and keep things ticking over .. but I still ensure that both my healer and dps spec is fully enchanted and gemmed to the best of my ability.  I'm often running on fumes in order to do so (and not just wine fumes!), but I make it work.  Because I feel that my output is not the best it can be .. and probably I'll never be the best ... which is why every little helps.  When I then see people doing low output and yet have no gems or enchants, it makes me wonder why they're turning up.  Because it's not to help the guild or the raid group.

I'm not picking on anyone in particular .. I was just startled to discover it was happening.  I had just assumed, silly me, that because we had always said, in our raid rules, that everyone should be gemmed and enchanted, and because no-one had said they were struggling to do so, that everyone was.

What I could perhaps suggest, if people are having problems, is ask everyone who wants to raid, to ensure they have an enchanting building in their garrison.  This way they can DE their own cast-off/surplus gear and store the mats in order to get enchants.

 
*Maelynn*

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re: Reminder to Raiders

Poisonenvy wrote:

ask everyone who wants to raid, to ensure they have an enchanting building in their garrison

I'm not a raider anymore, but I for one wouldn't appreciate my guild enforcing specific Garrison buildings on me. You could of course advise it, but it shouldn't be ensured and remain a player's personal choice what kind of buildings they want in their own Garrison.

What you could perhaps do instead is encourage people to ask guildies with an Enchanter's Study for a brief party invite, so they can go into their Garrison and DE some saved-up stuff.  And in order to facilitate this, you could encourage people with an (alt with an) Enchanter's Study to speak up and be willing to relog for a few minutes if they see a guildie ask for it.

 
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Leeboi2703

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re: Reminder to Raiders

There's plebty of us willing to share, I've let people use one and other people have allowed me to use theirs so there shouldn't be an issue. As for gems you can do the same, use your mine and harder to store the matts for your gems and ask guilders, I'm always happy to make a gem or enchant if it doesn't use my tala site crystals (I.e.) big ones

 
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Leeboi2703

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re: Reminder to Raiders

Oops auto correct turned garden into harder

 
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Poisonenvy
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re: Reminder to Raiders

I'm not telling people to do it, it's just a suggestion to those who say one of the reasons they don't enchant is because the mats are so expensive .. perhaps I didn't phrase it very well :-)

What I should have perhaps said was:

What I could perhaps suggest, if people are having problems, is that everyone who wants to raid, who are having problems,  have an enchanting building in their garrison.  This way they can DE their own cast-off/surplus gear and store the mats in order to get enchants.

The problem with visiting someone else's enchanting building, is that generally, unless you're disenchanting purples, you're primarily only getting the dust .. which as far as I'm aware is only used for the production of Fractured Temporal Crystals (like the stone from the mine)

I'm happy for others to visit any of my garrisons that have an enchanting building (only the ones where I have two proper professions on a character do not have an enchanting building .. so my herbalist/inscriber has one, my JC/Miner has one, my BS/Miner has one, for example).

If I'd realised that raiders were having difficulty with this earlier, perhaps we would have had time to stock-pile and perhaps pool resources a bit better .. but because no-one said anything until recently, I'd made the stupid assumption that everything was fine.  As the old saying about the word "assume" goes ...

If there are any other ways to get enchanting mats ... are there various trade vendors that will sell/trade for them? .. then let me know.

Saying all that ... in theory we could enforce it, in a way.  It is, and has been for many years, part of our guild rules .. that everyone states they have read and understood prior to applying .. that raiders should be prepared, including flasks, food, gems, enchants, etc.  We could say that we will only take people on a raid who qualify.  We're then not making them do anything .. it is completely their choice whether or not to make the effort.  And yes, it is an effort ... and it feels kinda unfair to those of us who have made that effort, when others don't.

You're right that we are not the type of guild that makes people build specific buildings .. of course that it completely up to each person what they build and when. 

However, we are also the type of guild, by our very nature, who are rather casual .. we don't make too many restrictions or demands on raiders ... we are not elitist and generally as long as they can do their best, that's good enough.  Unfortunately the down side of this is that some encounters that other, more restrictive guilds, find easy .. we only just scrape through on.  Or wipe regularly until we "understand" it completely. 

It means that every person who perhaps scrapes through over the minimum ilevel threshold we've set may not necessary be able to do their best because they're losing out on so many potential gains given by enchants and gems.  Which in flex raiding has a knock-on effect because the encounters become increasingly more difficult the more people you have.  The encounter doesn't care what sort of output those extra 10 people are doing .. it simply counts 10 people and multiplies the difficulty level accordingly.  So if half of those people are doing less than the needed average output needed for the fight, it basically means that it would be easier to do without those 5 people.  And if they're ONLY performing under the average because they're not enchanted or gemmed .. then it's a no-brainer. 

Just to give a little background on why this has all come about, by the way ... I ended up seeing and then becoming part of a guild chat the other day with a guild member who was complaining that LFR etc was boring .. so much so that occasionally he just went AFK mid fight.  Someone else mentioned in guild chat that they were ilevel 631 and the first person mentioned that they failed to understand how anyone could be at such a low ilevel he was over 640 and had made very little effort .. to the point where he hadn't even bothered to enchant it. 

The conversation lasted a long time, but the short version was that the first person told me they would expect everyone who raided to have gems and enchants and could even recommend an addon which would tell a raid leader who wasn't .. so that I could "tell people off" (and that they had used it in a previous guild where they "enforced a culture" of demanding those who got new loot, link it in chat later to prove it had been enchanted).  I said I didn't need to do that as everyone in Dark Wolves was very responsible and always did the best they could .. to the point where, in one raid recently, we stopped mid-raid so people could enchant new loot.

That person then confessed they had raided with us once without any enchants, but would now deal with it.

This perhaps shows the outcome of that best ... I've left the names off, but you can probably guess which one we're talking about here ...

Again .. I'm not wanting to pick on anyone.  I just want to apologise really for not realising sooner that this was a problem.  I've already given out some enchants, but my buildings are all on maximum output and I only generally have enough for myself with enough for perhaps one or two extra per week (not including weapons).  And to be quite frank, I don't really think it should be up to ANYONE to be putting in all the hard work and then giving it away.  I don't mind, when some of my professions such as blacksmithing, tailoring, etc, have plenty of mats spare, making free gear for people, but to be honest my characters have to come first for gear, gems and enchants.

Yes, enchanting mats cost a lot .. but there aren't a great deal of them .. a weapon, a neck, two rings and a back, is it?  Once you have all those enchanted, then even if you're exceptionally lucky, it would be unusual to have to replace more than two enchants in a week.  And as it was pointed out to me recently,  Death Knights have a free pass on weapon enchants anyway

As I said before .. I'm open to suggestions on alternative sources.

 

re: Reminder to Raiders

If you can get access to an enchanting study with greens and blues you'll mostly get Draenic Dust and the occasional Luminous Shard.

Any enchanter of decent level will get 1 Temporal Crystal from 1 Luminous Shard daily and they can turn 20 Draenic Dust into 1 Luminous Shard as much as they want.


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