You can't please all the people, all of the time ...

[Poisonenvy]

 

 

We had a question raised in a recent raid about why we were running the raids we did, on the nights we did.  Specifically, it was questioning why we ran Normal raids on a Friday, and didn't simply devote both raiding nights to Heroic.

Firstly, I'd like to stress that, despite it sounding like a simple question .. the reply is not, and therefore it was not the best time (ie, mid raid) to ask.

Secondly, I'd like to say that generally I'm open and willing to listen to ideas on how to change things around, and I do change things based on what I've been told, what I hear, what I experience in raids/guild currently, and what I've experienced in the past.  I try to ensure that people are made aware of that process, but I can not be expected to speak to each individual raider to explain exactly why I'm doing something - which is why I expect all raiders to visit this website regularly in order to keep on top of news and information relating to raids and, ideally, also check out discord, where often more fluid conversations take place.  Often, if we have made a decision during a raid night to do something different for the following raid/week, I will add it to the final post for that raid night, along with the link to the combat logs.

There appeared to have been a few occasions recently where something has happened or been mentioned in game, that has made it perfectly obvious that some raiders are not checking the website.  Some things are as simple as not actually reading the requirements for a raid, or which raid it is, on the calendar - item level, continuation or fresh - this information is held both on the calendar event itself AND on the forum post relating to that event on this website.  I am not hiding that information, it should not be a surprise and I should not be having to ensure people know this information, even after they've signed up for said events.

Equally .. we have a raid every Wednesday and every Friday.  They go up on the calendar in good time. We accept people in their preferred roles on a first come, first served basis.  This should not be a surprise and I will not be chasing up people to ensure they know this.  If you do not sign up to an event on the calendar, I will assume you do not wish to go.  If you sign up on the calendar days after everyone else signed, and there are several of your role already signed, do not be surprised if there is no space for your particular role.

We expect everyone to be fully gemmed and enchanted, flasked and have food and potions .. again this should not be a surprise.  We expect people to do their research on bosses they've never done before, or struggle with - this should not be a surprise!!

Yet virtually every week I feel I'm reminding people, chasing people, nudging people.  And what appears like a fairly regular thing .. I'm sticking up a reminder post like this .. that the people who already know all this, see and understand .. and the people who NEED to see this, either just don't, or they ignore it.  So basically it's probably a waste of time   What perhaps we need, is some of those who have raided with us for some time, who see people who are regularly having to be chased, or who regularly question things, perhaps point them in the direction of this site .. explain that there are certain expectations.  Give them that gentle nudge, that general reminder.

Right .. so now that's out of the way .. the explanation and the reasoning behind NOT having both our raid nights Heroic.

• First and foremost .. there's no rush.  Heroic isn't going away.
• This is literally only the second week we've "officially" been running heroic.  We did the first boss in Heroic after our Friday Normal clear on the 2nd August.  Our first "proper" Heroic raid was the following week (last week).
• People still want to do Normal.  Some people are still just getting their main characters up to scratch, some want to take alts.
• It is easier to learn tactics and/or a new role/class in Normal, than in Heroic.
• I still get asked if we are going to cover certain Normal bosses.
• Less people sign up on a Friday for raids.  This is NOT because of the content, this is because less people want to/can raid on a Friday.
• I know less people sign on a Friday irrespective of content, because over the years I have switched raids around multiple times so that people who can only raid one night a week, some Wednesday and some Friday, get a chance at different content .. and regardless of which night gets the more progressive raid/bosses, Friday is still less popular.
• Friday generally is a more relaxed night for many, compared to Wednesday. 
• It is bad for morale, especially if we're struggling on a boss, to wipe and raid difficult bosses, every raid night, every week.  We need some raids to be easier and more relaxed, to ensure we're not going to get stressed too much about slow progression.

 

Links for evidence and for information:

Our combat logs calendar showing which raids we've done, when: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guild/calendar/18279/

News item on the website showing first Normal clear and first heroic boss kill (please note the high attendance was NOT due to running heroic .. as that was unplanned): http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12032342&gid=180473

Comment at the end of last Friday's raid relating to forthcoming raids (based on conversations held during that raid): http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?p=40033272&gid=180473#40033272 

Information in the Guild Raid Events section on how we set up and run raids: http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11970810&gid=180473

Information in the Guild Raid Events section on how to add yourself to the raiders list (especially if your class is multi-role): http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11970830&gid=180473

A post in the general raiding section about how we set up and run raids: http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12019197&gid=180473

Raid ilevel requirements (also posted on each individual forum post for specific raids): http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11970825&gid=180473

Specifics reinforcing what we expect raiders to know: http://www.darkwolves.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11293468&gid=180473

Guild raiding rules (everyone agreed to these when they applied to join the guild): http://www.darkwolves.eu/gwiki/index.php?page_name=Raiding_Rules&gid=180473

Link to our discord (which is primarily text chat .. like a guild chat but outside the game, but does have some voice chat channels if people want to use them) - we encourage everyone to join, especially raiders, where more fluid conversations can occur and where I can easily send reminders to people if needed, and people can more easily contact me out of game: https://discord.gg/gQ2uBGe

 

 

[Jaleypie]

I'm not sure who has been complaining but just wanted to add that I was extremely grateful at the opportunity to have some normal raids on the Friday. As a lot of you know, I'm only available for raiding on Friday nights and the only bosses I was getting any experience in was the last 2 bosses so while everyone else is getting an abundance of bosses for a chance at loot I was only ever part of the groups learning the final bosses so in the last 2 weeks I think we had 2 kills.

Maybe others are in the same situation as me which meant not getting the same opportunity for gear as the Wednesday group, therefore when we killed the final boss on normal and moved onto heroics I didn't have enough ilvl to participate. We also struggle as it is for group numbers on Fridays so there was the possibility of heroic runs on the Friday being cancelled simply due to the available people not having enough ilvl, it makes sense to have a couple of normal runs rather than do nothing.

In other news, I do have enough ilvl now so thank you for letting me get some gear and see the bosses on normal mode before being thrown into heroics :)

[Poisonenvy]

It wasn't a complaint, as such, Myra .. more a question of why we're not focussing purely on Heroic on both nights .. and the question arose when we were mid-raid, so I didn't feel it was really the place to answer fully, as the answer is fairly complicated.  It's not just a "'cos I said so" :p

And I know that some people can only raid one night or the other, which is why I think it's nice to swap things around a bit - basically I'm doing my best to maximise everyone's experience in the various bosses, at the various levels.  I think one of the problems is that some people are way more advanced with gear than others, and are more loot focussed, and don't understand that we have a wide range of raiders at a wide range of experience and gear.  Also .. sometimes two weeks is, apparently, a very long time :p

Having said that .. I also have to balance that, whatever we do, whenever we do it, based on past experience and many, many polls and discussions, Wednesday is more popular than Friday, and the other days are worse.  Having the additional numbers, and the additional experience, on a Wednesday, means that generally Wednesday IS a better day for running progression.  Yet we still killed two new bosses recently on a Friday - the end boss on Normal and the first on Heroic .. at which you attended both .. so progression is not limited to a Wednesday :p

I do understand the problem of number of boss kills/potential for more loot problem we have been recently having on a Friday though - primarily brought about by only running the one level raid both night.  This is now no longer a problem as for the next few weeks we'll probably alternate fresh/continuation for both night, ie, one week we start fresh, the next week we continue however far we got the previous week.  The only problem that throws up is that, if we finish early on a Friday on a Normal continuation, potentially we may not have enough people in the raid who have not already done the first heroic boss on the character they're on.

Once people get more and more used to the tactics, especially for Normal, I'd hope that we'd probably be able to squeeze in all bosses on one night.

Organising what raids we do, on what nights, is an ever-changing beast - depending on number of alts people have/want to raid with, how quickly we progress, how many people of different roles we have available for each night. 

Heroic raiding on a Friday may well take a little longer .. eventually we will get to the point where we do two heroic raids only, and if Doug/Sonskyn are willing to continue with the "Social Sunday" raids on Normal, that would fulfil that need.  But that's some time down the road at the moment and I can't give a timescale for it.

[Jaleypie]

*Presses the invisible 'like' button on the above post*

[Poisonenvy]

It's the little "up" arrow near the "reply" button ;-)

[GrumpyMatt]

I think it's fine as it is for now. Fridays for normals until we can go through all of the bosses in one go.
Gives people who don't know the raid an easy introduction imo.
Also if I miss out on the healing spot during fridays I can easily switch to either dps or tank, whichever is needed.
"Social Sundays", hmm. keep us posted on that (Ryuuth and I).
Us two do Mechagon runs during weekend nights, last week we went through it easily with our fellow guildies.
(i know it doesnt have anything to do with the raids but it's a good way to gear people up for it).

My first forum post, yay!

[Jaleypie]

I thought that was for something else >_>

[Poisonenvy]

Happy for all input ;-)  That sounds great, Grumpy .. I'd like to get in on some Mechagon action at some point, but I have weird weekends :p

[Poisonenvy]

Happy for all input ;-)  That sounds great, Grumpy .. I'd like to get in on some Mechagon action at some point, but I have weird weekends :p